[00:00:00] Melissa Kellogg: [00:00:00] Welcome. I am marketing expert and business coach Melissa Kellogg Lueck, and this is the Doing Business Like a Woman podcast, where we are exploring and teaching you how women are reinventing the way business is done and money is made to help you create greater impact and financial freedom, one business at a time.
[00:00:25] Melissa Kellogg: Okay. Welcome everybody. Thank you so much for being with me today. I'm really excited to share with you a guest, one of my. Favorite people and most inspiring women that I look up to. And I'm really excited to have her here to share her wisdom with us today. We have Sara Hart with us, and I'm gonna ask her to introduce herself in just a moment.
[00:00:50] Melissa Kellogg: But welcome, Sara. Thank you so much for being here.
[00:00:53] Sara Hart: Oh, thank you Melissa. I'm very, very happy to be here with you.
[00:00:57] Melissa Kellogg: So I know a little bit about you and actually, as I [00:01:00] was reading up on you today, I learned a little bit more that I'm really excited to talk more about and hear more about. But I would love it if you had, I.
[00:01:09] Melissa Kellogg: Give us an introduction so my audience can learn a, a little bit more about you too.
[00:01:14] Sara Hart: Sure. Well, as Melissa said, I'm Sara Hart. I live in Los Altos, California, which is about 30, 45 minutes south of San Francisco. I. I went to graduate school, came outta graduate school, taught at Queens College in New York for a while.
[00:01:32] Sara Hart: From there, went to Pfizer and was in charge of the learning and development in the research division in the us and spent five years in the UK for Pfizer as head of HR for the research division in the uk. I came back and it was a wonderful company. I had a wonderful job. I loved living in Mystic, Connecticut.
[00:01:54] Sara Hart: I had a gorgeous house and I didn't wanna do it anymore. I. Mm. And [00:02:00] so I this is a long story that I won't go through, but anyway, I left and I moved to San Francisco, started my company Heart com. Now, I started it before the.com era, so that com was my last name and com communication, commitment, and community.
[00:02:18] Sara Hart: And then.com era came in, so it became heart com, dot com. And so that's what I had. So I've had that for almost 30 years. Doing pretty much a lot of what I was doing at Pfizer that I wanted to do. I wanted to do leadership coaching and offsite meetings team development, that kind of stuff, until about five years ago when I didn't wanna do that anymore.
[00:02:45] Sara Hart: I. I realized what I wanted to do was with work with and on behalf of older women, and so I started Prime Spark. Prime Spark comes from, I was talking to a coach at that time and she said, oh, you're [00:03:00] golden years. I. And I said, no, no, no, no, no. I wanna help women in the prime of their lives find that spark deep inside that will ignite them forward into the world for the make the contribution that they they want to make.
[00:03:16] Sara Hart: I thought that spark in the prime of your lives. Prime spark. And so that's when Prime Spark was born. So I've been doing that now for about five years, and that's what most of my attention is on. I have a kitty cat named Coco Bean, and he's a wonderful kitty cat. He's huge, but he's a good kitty cat.
[00:03:39] Melissa Kellogg: That's, that's me.
[00:03:42] Melissa Kellogg: I love it. So I am curious and I, I love the, the work that you're doing now around Prime Spark and so we'll get to that. You know, definitely as a middle aged woman myself, there's a lot, a lot we could. [00:04:00] Discuss there. But I'm curious what it was like for you when you left your corporate job, and so you were in Mystic, Connecticut, the home of Mystic Pizza.
[00:04:11] Melissa Kellogg: Remember the, do you ever watch the movie?
[00:04:13] Sara Hart: Yes. There was one scene in there that was shot in Mystic one scene.
[00:04:18] Melissa Kellogg: Oh, I love that. It's so cool. I remember I, well, I used to live in the New York City area and I remember the first I was a Colorado girl moving out there and driving on the, the expressway. Past Mystic and thinking about Mystic Pizza, I always thought that was so cool. Yeah. Anyway, now I know somebody that actually lived there.
[00:04:41] Melissa Kellogg: Yes. I loved it. So what was that like for you? I mean, you talk a lot about transitions and what was that like for you at 50, kind of almost in the prime of your, you know, career time to leave the [00:05:00] corporate transition? To a new part of the country, a whole new life as an entrepreneur, what was that like for you?
[00:05:08] Sara Hart: It was terrifying. Yeah. It was. Making those kinds of changes are really, really hard. And friends of mine trying to talk me out of it, of course, I mean, you know, and, I said, you know, well actually what they wanted, they wanted me to just stay with Pfizer for five more years because then I could have taken early retirement.
[00:05:31] Sara Hart: And that means a lot of perks if you take retirement rather than resign. But I said to them, you know, if I stay five more years, my soul will be a raisin and it won't matter what I do. Hmm. And so. That's what I encourage women to think about. You know, it's, yeah, it's scary. I mean, we, for those of us who, who went through sort of what I went through and it was a very privileged [00:06:00] background because I, I went to college, you know, I was taken care of, went to graduate school.
[00:06:04] Sara Hart: I was taken care of. I worked, I taught in university. I was taken care of. I went to a corporate environment. I was taken care of, and now all of a sudden, for the first time. Ever I was gonna be responsible for taking care of myself, and it all got collapsed into worrying about health insurance. Mm. I was obsessed with what I do about health, health insurance.
[00:06:29] Sara Hart: Well, at that time, what you did about health insurance, you talked to a broker and you got health insurance. I mean, you know, it, it, it, it wasn't. It wasn't a, a secret but you, you just collapse all the fear into something and that was mine. But I just couldn't keep doing it anymore. And so I sold almost everything I had through things, some things in the car and drove cross country.
[00:06:54] Sara Hart: 'cause the only thing I knew wanted to do was live in San Francisco. Hmm. So I found a one room apartment [00:07:00] put everything I owned in one room and. I was so happy, Melissa. I didn't have, I had, you know, a, a a, a teeny bit of the possessions I had had. I didn't have a job. I didn't have any prospects. I had no idea what I wanted to do.
[00:07:22] Sara Hart: I had saved some money 'cause I could see what was coming. Pfizer blessed their heart, hired me back as a consultant every once in a while. So I subsisted. I don't know if you could do that in San Francisco now, but you could. And I was so happy and I just. Did that actually for about a year. It took me about a year to heal and to figure out what is it that I wanna do.
[00:07:51] Sara Hart: Mm. And I realized I didn't wanna work for anybody else again, ever in my whole entire life. And I really loved a lot of what I'd been doing. [00:08:00] I just didn't wanna work for anybody again. Mm-hmm. So I started my company and. That's all scary. So when I, women I work with, I wanna make sure they understand, you know, this, this isn't a walk in the park.
[00:08:16] Sara Hart: Yeah. It's we're not born and we're not taught initially any entrepreneurial skills.
[00:08:23] Melissa Kellogg: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:24] Sara Hart: You know, if we come outta corporate, we know nothing about managing a company. And so it was scary, but it was. A hundred percent worth it. I haven't for a moment regretted it. Even during tough times, I'm not sorry.
[00:08:46] Melissa Kellogg: Yeah. Yeah. I love that because, you know, we know statistically 86% of people will never start a business. So, you know, just by starting a business, being an entrepreneur, we're already in rare [00:09:00] air. And so of the 14% of us that decide to do that, you know, we, we know even further that as far as women, only 88% of us will ever make more than a hundred K in our business in a year.
[00:09:17] Melissa Kellogg: Right. And so I would love to hear. You know, what your, maybe some advice for those that are starting out, that entrepreneurial journey or, you know, really dealing with the fear and, you know, resilience. I know you talk a lot about resilience, and resilience is such an important part of the entrepreneurial journey.
[00:09:41] Melissa Kellogg: So maybe talk with us a little bit about that and give us your, your wi, your wise and sage advice.
[00:09:48] Sara Hart: Well, I don't know about that, Melissa, but I think that I. One of the most important, and I didn't do this and I, and I should have, so I had to, I had to make up for that. [00:10:00] I think one of the first things you need to do is learn about finances and how to manage the financial part of the whole thing.
[00:10:08] Melissa Kellogg: Mm-hmm. And
[00:10:10] Sara Hart: for a lot of us, that's hard because we've never had to do that really. I mean, we had a paycheck and we had bills to pay, but. That was simple as compared with what we're trying to do now. So I think really there are all sorts of courses you can take on setting up a small business, setting up on your own.
[00:10:31] Sara Hart: Mm-hmm. And I would take advantage of that and really get more comfortable with managing the whole financial aspects. I think you can't do all this on your own. I really don't. I really don't think you can. And so. If, if you have the ability to hire a coach or to do a lot of networking and find friends who can help you, you need support and you need guidance.[00:11:00]
[00:11:00] Sara Hart: And you, if you, if you really dig around and find groups of, of women in business currently who are managing their own business mm-hmm. And really use that resource. Because they will have gone through it and they, my my experience is that women who've done that are incredibly generous in offering knowledge and help.
[00:11:27] Sara Hart: And so I would definitely suggest that. It's also that's all really hardcore sorts of stuff. I was just not very long ago listening to a talk by a man whose name is Stacy Peralta. I hadn't heard of him, but everybody else seems to have. Hmm. He was a, a, a professional skateboarder. Mm-hmm. And the very first, and he said, you know, just dream.
[00:11:57] Sara Hart: Just pay attention to what is, [00:12:00] is glimmering out there and let it settle. Just just deal with the dream and don't let your brain get involved yet, because your brain will say, oh, that won't work. Oh, you can't do that. You don't know enough about that. So stay with the dream until it has a chance to form.
[00:12:18] Sara Hart: And don't even tell friends about it for a while. 'cause they will tell you, oh, that's not possible. You can't do that. If you have the ability to do it. I think to just stay in that space for a while and figure out what really, really calls me, what really do I desire? What, what really do I love? Where really do I wanna be involved in this world?
[00:12:47] Sara Hart: And it may be a whole new skillset that you'll have to acquire. Mm-hmm. Or maybe a lot of the things you've already done. I mean, my experience in some of the women I work with, they've [00:13:00] loved what they've done. They've been really good at it. They just don't wanna do it that way anymore. And so you can probably not just throw everything out, but look at what you really have loved about what you've been doing, and how can you use that in a new and different and exciting way.
[00:13:18] Sara Hart: And finally. You wanna make sure that you're setting things up. And this is so much easier said than done so that you don't end up working a lot harder and a lot longer than you did when you were in your job job because your life is what's most important, your health, your friends, and your family.
[00:13:44] Melissa Kellogg: Yeah.
[00:13:46] Sara Hart: So those are just some things I think of.
[00:13:49] Melissa Kellogg: I love that and I find so often with the women that I talk to and, and obviously this has been something I've struggled with too, is [00:14:00] that we're not taught or not really encouraged to listen to our own inner wisdom when it comes to building a business. You know, a, we are conditioned a lot of times to believe we're not good at money or we're not good at business, or we're not good at marketing or whatever it is.
[00:14:20] Melissa Kellogg: And so we go to look outside of us for all this, you know, all the voices on the outside. And so, and I know you are really good at tuning in to the inner. You know, desires, inner wisdom. So how did that come about for you, especially around building your business?
[00:14:46] Sara Hart: I think it has to do, that's an interesting question, Melissa.
[00:14:48] Sara Hart: I never thought of that. I think it has to do with paying attention to your intuition and your creativity.
[00:14:56] Melissa Kellogg: Mm.
[00:14:58] Sara Hart: And I, I don't mean you have to be a great [00:15:00] painter. I just mean making things, making, making things happen. You know, I mean, I've had, I mean, since I was a tiny little girl, I've had this amazing imagination, which has not always served me, but has served me a lot of the time and.
[00:15:17] Sara Hart: I think that, I don't know if, if you're born with that or if somehow you develop it, but I didn't grow up in a family that was, that encouraged intuition and creativity.
[00:15:30] Melissa Kellogg: Yeah.
[00:15:30] Sara Hart: And so when I would talk about my imaginary playmates in the backyard, which were as real to me as my, my, my actual friends, I was not encouraged to do that kind of thinking, but it was there.
[00:15:45] video-fbfbe169-ae62-4d1c-94a8-05d3e839a91a: Yeah.
[00:15:46] Sara Hart: And I didn't let go of it. And so I think as children, a lot of us have that creative, I it intuitive knowing mm-hmm. That we are talked out of, [00:16:00] that we cover up. And that's what we're trying to get back to. Mm-hmm. So. Thinking about what did I love to do as a child? You know, did I love Legos? Did I love making creative projects of some kind?
[00:16:22] Sara Hart: Did I love, I mean, I remember when I was a little girl, what, what I used to do all the time was have presentations. You know, so like, I guess I like to make presentations from the time I was tiny because my, a friend of mine, Nancy and I would set up stages and we'd get on. Then we'd, we'd ha force our parents to come while we presented whatever our thing was.
[00:16:48] Sara Hart: But think about what is it like that, that I really love to do as a child and. May, I may not be able to make any money from that right now, but what does that suggest to me [00:17:00] about what. What is, what is deep in there that may have been snuffed out? I mean, I don't know how many of us were taught over time.
[00:17:11] Sara Hart: No, that's, that's not a good drawing. You, you can't make purple faces. No, that's not, that's not good. You have to, you have to stay in these lines. Don't go outside these lines. And so, you know, we wanna be good kids or, or bad kids, but we, a lot of us wanna be good kids. We do that and gradually we think we can't draw.
[00:17:33] Sara Hart: We think we're not creative and we lose it, but it's there. And so. Play, you know, or did you, did you take musical music lessons of some kind when you were smaller? And do you really have an, an urge to do that again even though you'd be terrible at it? Probably initially. Mm-hmm. But [00:18:00] anything that taps into what really was inside of us in our heart when we were little kids I used to love to tell stories.
[00:18:11] Sara Hart: And I would, I would, I would tell these these incredible stories, one of my favorite stories about this woman who swam from New York to London. Wow. And you know, it was, and but, but it was fun. And so I still love stories. I, you know, somebody just says to me once upon a time, and I'm on the floor with a blanket.
[00:18:35] Sara Hart: I mean, I'm just, that's it, you know?
[00:18:38] Melissa Kellogg: I love that. So, are you originally from the New York area?
[00:18:43] Sara Hart: No, I'm originally from Ohio.
[00:18:45] Melissa Kellogg: Okay.
[00:18:46] Sara Hart: But I don't even know at that point how I knew about New York, but mm-hmm. I did. And she swam from New York to London. I don't, who knows? You know, I don't know. I love that.
[00:18:58] Melissa Kellogg: Yeah. I've I find [00:19:00] myself having thinking a lot about wanting to go back to some of the things that I really enjoyed as a kid. You know, and may, I don't know if that's a midlife thing. But now as my kids get older and you know, I think about wanting to take up a jazz piano and play in a jazz band.
[00:19:25] Sara Hart: Yeah. Oh, fun.
[00:19:26] Melissa Kellogg: Oh,
[00:19:26] Sara Hart: fun, fun,
[00:19:27] Melissa Kellogg: fun.
[00:19:29] Melissa Kellogg: I took piano lessons as a kid and I always detested playing playing. Classical piano, but always wanted to learn how to, how to improvise and you know, do a lot of that stuff. And my son is that way. Like he can just sit down and play the piano. Oh, I love it. But just for fun, you know, just for fun like.
[00:19:54] Melissa Kellogg: And I don't know, I guess it's my upbringing of coloring in the lines and wanting to do everything [00:20:00] perfect that it's really hard for me to do that. But there's part of me that really wants, has a desire for that. It's so funny. Well, and I
[00:20:06] Sara Hart: think, and listen, that is exactly the kind of thing we need to pay attention to.
[00:20:11] Sara Hart: Mm. And, and let that out in whatever way. Yeah. Because if we don't, then it just dies. It's sort of like a bloom. Yeah. And it might not lead to anything, but who knows what it might lead to. You know, getting, doing jazz piano might lead you to, to another instrument. It might lead you to singing. It might lead you to dancing.
[00:20:33] Sara Hart: It might lead, you know, who knows what it would lead to.
[00:20:36] Melissa Kellogg: Yeah.
[00:20:37] Sara Hart: See, I think, and this isn't really exactly what we're talking about, but I think that, that women in midlife naturally go through a big transition. I. And I think that we are, we become more of who we were meant to be. Hmm. And we let go [00:21:00] of some of the strictures that we've had.
[00:21:02] Melissa Kellogg: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:02] Sara Hart: And for women who have children, that's a, that's a lot of, of letting go and changing identity. But, but I think it's even for women who didn't have children, I think it's a time of life. I think it's. I think it's almost like an another puberty. I mean, I think it's natural if we let it happen.
[00:21:24] Melissa Kellogg: Yeah.
[00:21:25] Sara Hart: And so to really as a, as a woman to pay attention to those glimmers is what I think of, you know, what is calling and. It doesn't have to become a reality right now. Mm-hmm. It doesn't have to make us a bunch of money right now. Mm-hmm. But just let it Let it simmer. Yeah. Let it simmer. Because if you just keep it in your heart rather than letting it go to your brain, it will become more and more formed, and that's what we [00:22:00] want to have happen.
[00:22:00] Melissa Kellogg: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love that. It's been such an interesting kind of challenge that I've been even just giving myself of. I went to a conference here locally and went to one of the sessions. It was a business conference, but one of the sessions was about. It was put on by a gentleman that teaches actors and teaches improv acting.
[00:22:27] Melissa Kellogg: And so it was one of those things where you go around the circle and there was a prompt, and rather than thinking about it, you just had to say the first thing that came out of your mouth. It was really fun. Like I've never connected with that part of me like. I'm always the one that's, oh, let me think about it before, and I'll try to say something really smart, you know,
[00:22:51] Melissa Kellogg: but it's so that, that's so interesting that you say that to really, you know, and I don't, I haven't talked [00:23:00] to you about this, but I recently had a, I guess I'm 10 days out now from getting a concussion playing hockey and so I've had a brain injury, but I've really seen it as an interesting challenge to open up more to my heart and my inner knowing.
[00:23:17] Melissa Kellogg: 'cause my brain's a little slow now. Right. So it's been really interesting.
[00:23:22] Sara Hart: I think that that, what you just said before, Melissa, I think is an absolutely perfect thing for women to do. Yeah. Improv. I mean, interesting. It is, it is. It just makes us, it makes us open up if we really just go to the pla, go and do it, because you don't have time to think about it.
[00:23:42] Sara Hart: You have to respond with Yes. And, and so it just. Keeps opening and opening and opening it and, and you get over worrying about thinking about something before you say it. 'cause nobody thinks about whatever they're gonna say. You don't have time to do that.
[00:23:57] Melissa Kellogg: Yeah. Yeah. It was really [00:24:00] interesting and I felt myself I found myself.
[00:24:05] Melissa Kellogg: Feeling very uncomfortable. Like, I don't even, I wasn't even quite sure why I chose to go to that session because, but it was a, it sounded kind of wild and outside my comfort zone. So I was like, well, why not? Right? Let's go have a little fun rather than going, listening to another, you know, lecture on, I don't know, dealing with clients or whatever.
[00:24:28] Melissa Kellogg: But, so it was definitely out of my comfort zone and, you know, we were making weird noises and doing wild things and but yeah, I've really kind of enjoyed, and maybe that's a, a midlife thing of enjoyed, like exploring more, of getting out of any opportunity I can get outta my brain and listen more to my heart and my intuition.
[00:24:54] Melissa Kellogg: And it just feels so, it feels foreign to me, but at the same time very [00:25:00] attractive. Like I am. It's really beckoning me for more. So. Good. Stay with that. Yeah. That's so interesting. And you know, I also, I've been recently reading a book about menopause and so and the scientific fact that really had stuck out for me is the author is saying that, that humans are, and hopefully I'll get this right, but humans, human females have were very unique and that most other species of females don't have a period of their lives where they're not, you know, kind of post reproductive period. Like we have the longest post reproductive period of. All you know of, of the animal species or something of that sort.
[00:25:55] Melissa Kellogg: And I found that to be really interesting. Like, why would Mother Nature or [00:26:00] God or who, you know, our creator give us that long of a period of post reproductive, which, you know, for humans we know we're, we are. Living longer and longer and have the technology now to live to be a hundred. And so that's a really long period of our lives.
[00:26:24] Melissa Kellogg: So I would love to hear your thoughts about this post reproductive renaissance.
[00:26:30] Sara Hart: Well, I think yeah, I mean it's, it's, i, I, I can't cite this and I can't find it. And so I, I'm not a hundred percent sure this is accurate. And if anybody knows, please tell Melissa so she can tell me. Yeah. That when women stop being able to have babies.
[00:26:52] Sara Hart: Their hormones change in such a way that they actually do become more independent and [00:27:00] braver. Because up until that time we, we, in early, much earlier days, we had to depend on the community to help us raise children. We couldn't do it our own. So we had to be accepted, we had to be liked, we had to have people wanting to help us.
[00:27:19] Sara Hart: 'cause if our children were to survive, we had to depend on the community.
[00:27:23] Melissa Kellogg: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:24] Sara Hart: And so hormonally, when, when we stop during that, during that time of our lives of, of being able to have babies. We actually change and see, I, I think this happens even for women who don't have children, that it's, it's the time that it's, I think it's a, a physical, but I also think it's, it's a, it's a really social, psychological, spiritual development that women go through.
[00:27:55] Sara Hart: And so, and I think that we are finally, I. [00:28:00] Getting to the point that we can recognize menopause isn't a disease and that we can, number one, we can talk about it. Yeah. Number two, we don't see it as a disease and we can see it for what it is. It's, it is, it is. A total change in our, our bodies and what we can, what we are able to do physically as women.
[00:28:24] Sara Hart: And so it's not surprising that all kinds of spiritual, emotional, psychological things change after that time because our bodies have changed so drastically.
[00:28:38] Melissa Kellogg: Yeah, it's fascinating and. Talking about transitions, I know that is a big part of the work that you do in, in coaching and teaching and talking about transitions.
[00:28:54] Melissa Kellogg: How are you teaching women about that transition and how to [00:29:00] navigate that in a successful manner? Well, it,
[00:29:05] Sara Hart: we, we talk about endings. What's ending?
[00:29:11] Melissa Kellogg: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:12] Sara Hart: And how do you feel about that? I mean, it's at, it's really tough in this society because when we get to be 40, 50, 60,
[00:29:24] Sara Hart: our society sometimes treats us as if we're useless. I mean, we're not particularly cute anymore. We're not particularly sexy anymore for, for society. We can't even have babies. And so what good are we?
[00:29:41] Melissa Kellogg: Hmm.
[00:29:42] Sara Hart: And so I think we, we have to get a grip on that because I think we, we all unconsciously walk around thinking about that, that it, we don't wanna be older women.
[00:29:57] Sara Hart: And given the way that older [00:30:00] women are depicted in our society, who would wanna be one of those? Now, for those of us who work primarily with women, we know that that women in their fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties anymore aren't that stereotype of what a quote older woman is. Yeah. So initially we have to get a hold of how do I really feel about aging?
[00:30:26] Sara Hart: Because that's what's happening, you know? Mm-hmm. That's during this midlife. I'm, I'm getting older and every, a lot of, not everything, but a lot of the ways I defined myself up to this point in time are not there anymore. So who am I? And. So we, we have to really get to what's ending and then, then we get into the, this idea of opening your heart and what's there, what is servicing, you know, where, what can you bring forward that you is.[00:31:00]
[00:31:00] Sara Hart: Is, is in your heart, and I don't talk about, I, I am on purpose. Don't talk about purpose because I think we freeze people by Find your purpose.
[00:31:13] Melissa Kellogg: Yeah. Okay. Very intimidating. Like the one, like it has to be the one, it has to
[00:31:18] Sara Hart: be one, it has to be one purpose and it has to be mind blowing. It has to be, you know, earth shattering.
[00:31:24] Sara Hart: And that's just bunk, I think. I mean, I think throughout life we have lots of different purposes now I, I think there may be an a, a sort of a through line of things we that are important to us. And I don't, I think those probably form very early and, and may continue through life, but there's not one purpose.
[00:31:44] Sara Hart: So I don't help women find their purpose. I help them find the ability to. Listen to their heart, get creative and play and try lots of different things if you have, and not, not all women can do [00:32:00] this because there, there, I know we all have things that we're responsible for, we need to take care of and so forth.
[00:32:06] Sara Hart: So to the extent possible, just explore things that interest you and, and they can be things right around you. You, you don't need to make a big deal of it, but you know, are there. Are there museums around you you haven't gone to, or are there libraries around you where you haven't really spent much time?
[00:32:24] Sara Hart: Are there little shops where you haven't gone into to see what it is? Just explore and just find as many different kinds of things as possible. And so we, we do that for a while and I, and, and it. And really encourage and, and some women really rebel, like, and it's the word play and I try to find another word, but that's what we're doing.
[00:32:48] Sara Hart: Yeah. We're encouraging play and letting go of all the strictures that have been honest for a lot of years about how to be a good girl, how to be a [00:33:00] good employee, how to be a good mother, how to be a good wife, you know, just. Just to let go of those things and who am I? You know, what really turns me on? So we do that whole middle part and then really get to the point of, okay, what is next?
[00:33:19] Sara Hart: And it doesn't mean it has to be forever. You know, does, does try this? Does this work? No. Okay. Well now you know, you can let go of something and try something else and if that doesn't work, then you can let go of that and try something else. So it's a whole process and the, and some of it is step by step and some of it is just mishmash.
[00:33:42] Sara Hart: In trying to find what is my deep. Desire at this point. Mm-hmm. What do I love? What do I just love to do? You know, I think if you ask a woman what brings you the most joy in your life, [00:34:00] women can say that and then you say, great. How often do you do that? Yeah. Yeah. So we don't we don't. Think of it almost like a seed.
[00:34:12] Sara Hart: We don't take this seed, this joy seed and plant it and see what, and water it and make sure it has sun and let it sprout. So what does it sprout into?
[00:34:24] Melissa Kellogg: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:25] Sara Hart: Yeah,
[00:34:26] Melissa Kellogg: yeah, yeah. As you're talking, I'm thinking, you know, I, that sound, it sounds great and it sounds really. Invigorating and fun and explorative, but how do we help the other people in our lives that may be not so supportive or excited about us changing and going out and transitioning and experiencing all of these, you know, experiencing joy because there's.
[00:34:57] Melissa Kellogg: Sometimes people in our lives that like to see us [00:35:00] stay in our box.
[00:35:02] Sara Hart: Yes. And that is a huge issue because some of the people who are closest to us will not be over the moon about seeing all this. Mm-hmm. And so there's some decisions there that we have to make is. Do I wanna stay with this person? Do I wanna stay with these friends?
[00:35:24] Sara Hart: Do I wanna stay with this partner?
[00:35:26] Melissa Kellogg: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:27] Sara Hart: Probably so, at least the partner part. So we can, we can do what we can do to reassure them that this isn't changing my feelings for you. It's changing my feelings about myself and what I want in the world.
[00:35:44] Melissa Kellogg: I.
[00:35:44] Sara Hart: Yeah, but it doesn't have any impact on, on my love and deep feelings for you.
[00:35:50] Sara Hart: I'm, that's not changing. Other, other things are changing and yeah. And you know, side by side with that, you have to be pretty [00:36:00] firm about, and I am going to do this and so I really ask for your support or at least not having your blocking of it. Mm-hmm. Because I am going to do this and we need to figure out how to incorporate this into our relationship because this is going to happen.
[00:36:20] Melissa Kellogg: Yeah.
[00:36:22] Sara Hart: We don't give up. We don't give up once, once we get, start getting some of these feelings, because if we do, then we wither and the relationship's not gonna be good. Life is not gonna be good anyway.
[00:36:39] Melissa Kellogg: Yeah. Yeah. And that's really what life is about, is continuing to grow and change and go through these transitions, right?
[00:36:49] Melissa Kellogg: Right. 'cause my grandmother, who lived to be 99, she said, once you stop moving, you start dying. And she talked a lot about physical [00:37:00] movement. She had believed in exercise and did jazz exercise, you know, forever and whatever. But. I think I use that quote a lot because it's so applicable to all areas of our life as we're aging, right?
[00:37:13] Melissa Kellogg: Yes. The physical movement, but also the emotional, the spiritual, the inner movement too, right?
[00:37:21] Sara Hart: Yes. And for a lot of women, when, when here we talk, everything we're talking about, Melissa will say, oh, well that's really good, but I, my fi, my fi financial contribution to the household is, is. Important. I have to, and so of course you do.
[00:37:36] Sara Hart: If you have that responsibility, then that needs to be put into the pot, but not first. First. We deal with where is all this? Leading in terms of your dream and what you're most interested in, what really is calling you forward, and then at some point, and how can we monetize at least some of this? Mm-hmm.
[00:37:59] Sara Hart: And so [00:38:00] that has to be taken into account at some point if it has to be taken into account. So I don't not deal with that. Yeah. But I really, I really like the question, if you didn't have to make money, what would you do?
[00:38:14] video-fbfbe169-ae62-4d1c-94a8-05d3e839a91a: Mm-hmm.
[00:38:16] Sara Hart: Then at some point down the road as, and I encourage women not to leave moneymaking.
[00:38:22] Sara Hart: Now if they need to make money until something else is set up.
[00:38:27] Melissa Kellogg: Yeah.
[00:38:27] Sara Hart: You know, I, the way I did it, I don't encourage women to do it. Yeah. Well you learned, right? You live and learn. I was fine, but I, I'm not always, I was responsible just for me. Yeah. Didn't, you know, I didn't have a partner, I didn't have children.
[00:38:42] Sara Hart: I didn't, at that point, I didn't even have a cat. I was just, I, you know, and so a lot of women aren't in that position, and I recognize that.
[00:38:49] Melissa Kellogg: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think what's so important is to consider the both. And you know, I think a lot of times when we're in [00:39:00] transition or when we want to do something different or explore some of these desires and our inner listen to our inner wisdom and, and listen to our heart, we think it has to be either or, like it has to be all heart and.
[00:39:19] Melissa Kellogg: Not making any money or all this and none of that, but there's, I think, a lot of room for thinking, well, how can we do this and that? Right.
[00:39:29] video-fbfbe169-ae62-4d1c-94a8-05d3e839a91a: Right.
[00:39:29] Melissa Kellogg: How can I follow my heart, follow my passion, and have health insurance, right?
[00:39:35] Sara Hart: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. And that stuff is real. But to keep. You can't start with it.
[00:39:43] Sara Hart: You don't. You don't let go of that if you need to be doing it until you get some other things going. But you don't start with, how can I make money at this? Yeah.
[00:39:55] Melissa Kellogg: Yeah. A concept I teach is the, that there's two [00:40:00] parts of us, like there's our business brain and then there's, there's our helper's heart.
[00:40:04] Melissa Kellogg: Right? And so it's our helper's heart where, you know, we have our best ideas and that's where we're doing sales and marketing from. But yes, the business brain also has a role too. Sure. But it's opening up to that both and thinking, right? Yeah. So fun. So one of the other things I'd love to hear you talk about is throughout your journey, you incor began to incorporate speaking and you're now a speaker and you travel all over and speak and you're actually so Sara and I know each other through eWomen Network and I'm a managing director for the Northern Colorado chapter, as many of you know.
[00:40:49] Melissa Kellogg: And so Sara is actually gonna come speak at our chapter in June. And so if you want to see her and get to interact with her in person in real life, [00:41:00] IRL she will be here with us for our accelerated networking luncheon in June. That's on June 5th. Yeah. Is it June or July? July. No, you're right. It's July.
[00:41:11] Melissa Kellogg: July, July 10th. Okay. I was saying July 10th. Whoa.
[00:41:12] Sara Hart: No. Oh dear. Oh dear. Okay.
[00:41:15] Melissa Kellogg: You're like, oh. No correction update. She's gonna be with us in July, which is really exciting. But tell me a little bit about how that came about. Like the speaking career.
[00:41:29] Sara Hart: I think. It was, I, like I said before, Melissa, I think that from my, the time I was a tiny little girl, I liked to get up and talk
[00:41:39] video-fbfbe169-ae62-4d1c-94a8-05d3e839a91a: and
[00:41:40] Sara Hart: I am a, people don't believe this, but it's very true.
[00:41:44] Sara Hart: I am a, a very, very strong introvert. And I have spent my entire adult life standing up in front of groups talking. Because I did all the learning and development stuff at Pfizer. [00:42:00] That's what I did for the next 20 some years in my company. And that's just what I do. It people, some people, and I, I understand this 'cause I've coached some, some speaking, I do some of that co coaching.
[00:42:17] video-fbfbe169-ae62-4d1c-94a8-05d3e839a91a: Nice.
[00:42:18] Sara Hart: That public speaking is scarier to some people than dying. And I understand that, and for me, I'm, it's not scary to me and I think it's. I think it's because when I was tiny, I used to just stand up all the time and do presentations. We had, we had productions. Yeah. And so as time went along and when I was doing my, my then my own business, people would talk about the best way to get clients out, da da da da da is speaking, networking.
[00:42:50] Sara Hart: You know, that, that, that. And for me, the easiest one of all of that, certainly easier than networking is [00:43:00] speaking that's very easy. So I didn't do, I did a lot of speaking in, in sense of teaching groups.
[00:43:12] Melissa Kellogg: Mm-hmm.
[00:43:13] Sara Hart: But I didn't actually do very much speaking, speaking until I had prime spark and I am.
[00:43:20] Sara Hart: So dedicated to it, and I want to get that message out to women as wide as possible. And I realized that was not going to happen if I kept doing small groups of women or coaching one-on-one, that I needed to be talking to larger audiences. Mm-hmm. So that's sort of how it came about. It was a desire to get my message out.
[00:43:48] Melissa Kellogg: Yeah. I love that. So good. And you have gotten your message out on some pretty big stages, being a finalist with the North America's Next greatest speaker. And, [00:44:00] and if you ever get a chance to hear Sara speak on stage, she is amazing. So it's definitely, thank you. Inspiring
[00:44:07] Sara Hart: and I love doing it. But the, but the biggest payoff for me is when I came off the stage at, at, I at the conference one year. Yeah. A woman came up to me with tears in her eyes and she said, I know now why I came. I needed to hear your message. Mm. Now that, that is why I do what I do.
[00:44:34] Melissa Kellogg: Yeah. That conviction. Wow. Yeah. That's amazing. I love that.
[00:44:40] Sara Hart: Yeah. It was, I was just, oh,
[00:44:43] Melissa Kellogg: yeah. That's worth, you can't even pay for that, right?
[00:44:47] Melissa Kellogg: Like that's all the dollars. No, I mean,
[00:44:49] Sara Hart: what's, what's better than that to, to be helping somebody come to that point when you're talking about something that's so important to you. Yeah. I love that. So good.
[00:44:59] Melissa Kellogg: [00:45:00] Well, thank you so much for being with us today and I love every chance I get. To chat with you and we always invite our eWomen network chapter Northern Colorado.
[00:45:12] Melissa Kellogg: We always invite Sara to be our adopted member during our annual conference in Dallas in August. And, so we'll definitely invite you again to come to dinner with us. Thank you. Thank you. It's always so fun to get to chat with you and then we feel so much pride when we get to watch you on the stage and speak and so we're looking forward to that again too.
[00:45:34] Melissa Kellogg: 'cause I know you're a finalist again this year. Yeah. Yep. Nice.
[00:45:39] Sara Hart: And again, the main reason why I keep doing this is it's a wonderful way to get my message out.
[00:45:47] Melissa Kellogg: Yeah. And I love that, that it's really that conviction and the, the commitment you have to getting the message out that gets you on the big stage [00:46:00] regardless of being an introvert and, you know, all the travel and the preparation and I'm sure nerves 'cause everyone gets nervous now and then, and, and it, it just gets you overcoming all of that in order to share that message.
[00:46:14] Melissa Kellogg: So I love that.
[00:46:15] Sara Hart: Thank you. I just really want women to know that the rest of your life can be the best of your life.
[00:46:23] Melissa Kellogg: Mm-hmm. You're
[00:46:23] Sara Hart: 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, whatever you are. You can still do that. Yeah. It's still possible. It's not too late. It's never too late. As long as you can keep any health at all, it's not too late.
[00:46:39] Melissa Kellogg: I love that. Well, thank you so much and I love the work that you're doing in the world, and thank you for coming by and sharing it, sharing that with us today, and I will look forward to chatting with you again real soon.
[00:46:54] Sara Hart: Thank you, Melissa.
[00:46:54] Melissa Kellogg: Hey, if you like this podcast, I wanna invite you to become part of my [00:47:00] community. The link is in the show notes. Each Friday, I'm gonna deliver to your inbox my weekly celebration, as well as my thoughts on the latest and business and marketing. I wanna keep you in the know about my upcoming events.
[00:47:14] Melissa Kellogg: Free trainings, book clubs, all the fun things, even some free gifts. And of course, I'm gonna let you know about these new podcast episodes. I'll see you there.
